Wikinvest Wire

Economists are Sooo Optimistic

Friday, March 16, 2007

This survey($) of economists in today's Wall Street Journal seems to be at odds with itself. The consensus opinion of the 60 dismal thinkers polled points to spreading subprime problems and falling home price to go along with steady unemployment and no recession.

You have to cast some doubt on the assembled wisdom after reading that second paragraph - consumer confidence sentiment just plunged to a six month low this morning.

Most economic forecasters in a new WSJ.com survey believe recent turmoil in the subprime mortgage market is likely to spread to the broader mortgage market and they expect a widely followed index of home prices to fall this year. But they still think the U.S. will avoid a recession and even a significant rise in unemployment.

"The markets may have over-reacted," said John Lonski of Moody's Investors Service. "Only businesses significantly exposed to subprime will be hurt. Mortgage repayment problems aren't as widespread as we are led to believe. If most people were having trouble paying the mortgage, it would lead to declining consumer confidence and we haven't seen that."

Of the 60 economists surveyed, 32 said it is either "very" or "somewhat" likely that the intense and speedy unraveling of the market for subprime mortgages -- home loans made to people with poor credit histories – will spill over to the rest of the mortgage market.

But 26 said that's not likely. Two didn't respond.
...
But, as is often the case, there is disagreement among the economists about the risks that the subprime market poses to the overall U.S. economy.

"Mortgage credit-quality problems go well beyond the subprime sector," wrote Jan Hatzius, chief U.S. economist at Goldman Sachs in New York, in a research note. "The underlying problem is not the subprime market per se, but the reset of large quantities of adjustable-rate debt -- some of which is classified as subprime some as prime -- to higher interest rates in an environment of flat or falling house prices in most of the United States."

Mr. Hatzius notes that the so-called teaser rate, or low initial rate on adjustable-rate mortgages, expires sooner for subprime mortgages. This implies that mortgage-holders with prime ARMs may come to experience the same woes currently making waves in the subprime sector.

The extent of any spillover from subprime to the broader housing market remains unclear. "You can tell a lot of scary stories," said Richard DeKaser of National City Corp., "but they're not broadly accurate. We're still talking about a small segment of the nation's homes that are affected." According to the American Housing Survey5 for 2005, the most recent date for which data are available, 33% of all homes are owned outright and 57% have traditional mortgages, leaving just 10% potentially affected by ARM woes.

The subprime concerns are also likely to weigh on prices, according to Mr. Lonski. "Home sellers will be forced to accept lower prices in the spring. The subprime issue reinforces that home prices would be subject to price recession, creating an expectation of lower prices among buyers."
...
The economists were split on whether regulators should have acted sooner in the subprime mortgage market. Twenty-eight of the respondents said "yes," while 24 said "no." Robert DiClemente of Citigroup contended that the problem wasn't centered on regulated institutions.

But some economists put part of the blame on the Federal Reserve. "Was it necessary to cut the fed funds rate to 1%, supercharging the housing recovery?" said Mr. Lonski. The June 2003 move, which ended a three-year cycle of rate cuts, was aimed at fostering economic growth and contributed to continued low mortgage rates.
Well, at least they're asking the right questions - short-term interest rates at one percent combined with lax regulation and Wall Street ingenuity have brought us to where we are today.

Should so many people be so surprised?

No one is really sure about what to expect next, but it sure has gotten interesting.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

That guy on CNBC is pretty sharp -- not Liesman, but the guy from Economy.com that comes in every time they have a jobs or inflation datat -- Mark Zandi

Anonymous said...

Back in the 80's when a foreign semiconductor company trying to gain a foothold in the US chip market dropped prices to below their costs, they would (sometimes) get fined by US trade regulators for "dumping."

Did anyone back then ever argue "Well, this chip company only accounts for a small part of the overall chip market -- so it won't have an effect on the prices of chips in general" ?

Nikki said...

Tim,
Surely you've seen this...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/16/news/newsmakers/greenspan.reut/index.htm?postversion=2007031618

"Making matters worse, his critics contend that many of the troubles facing the U.S. economy - including growing tumult in the housing market - are a direct product of his prolonged policy of rock-bottom interest rates."

I'm seeing this more and more. What are the odds that a real mortgage blowup could change his legacy? Or will it be seen as all Bernanke's fault?

Nikki said...

Oops, thought I pasted the tinyurl link. Here it is.

Tim said...

History will probably not look kindly on the former Fed chairman.

Anonymous said...

Good find, Tim.

Apparently only 32 out of the 60 have even a remote inkling that feedback effects might upset their little linearlized, narrowly-focused analyses.

Ah, economists.

When dismal scientists aren't suitably dismal, it's time to worry.

Melissa said...

Just found you via linking through housing.com's blog. I work in homebuilding, and see daily what Greenspan has done to our industry. It's a mess, to say the least.

This is good stuff, you are a daily read now.

Anonymous said...

No one man is ever to blame! Greenspan did his job and kept the inflation monster in check (especially in his later years). But the secondary market (investors), wholesales, mortgage brokers, realtors, and even the buyers are the primary causes of what I'm sure will go down in history with at least the equivalency of the S&L debacle.
I would have to say that with our economic history, we will see a recession - to what extent, remains to be seen. We are obviously subject to China's stock market. We also are still at War (at great cost), baby boomers retiring, medical expenses out of hand, HUGE national deficit, HUGE trade deficit. My question is this - What is the NEXT domino and where will THAT put the economy?

Anonymous said...

Unless Greenspan somehow convinced every major investor to loosen their lending criteria to the point that virtually anyone with a pulse and a 1003 could get a mortgage, you can't possibly blame him for the collapse of the subprime market.

Here it is in a nutshell. The recent housing "demand" was actually artificially created by flooding the housing market with newly "qualified" borrowers, who in retrospect really weren't qualified at all, but did do a wonderful job of driving housing prices up. That, combined with the absolutely insane "Option ARM" product are in fact the major contributors here. Let's see, an investor approves a 570 score, 100% cltv, investment property, 3 x 30 mortgage lates, and then act suprised when the deal goes bad? And act even more suprised that Wall Street isn't so confident in these securities anymore? Please. Now what you have is all these garbage arms recasting, except the borrower can't refi or sell because the home he paid $385,000 for with no money down is now only appraising at $310,000.
Just sit back and watch foreclosures and short sales skyrocket over the next 12-18 months.

Anonymous said...

Great post!

UK Home Mortgages Guy

Anonymous said...

this is a much larger problem than anyone in the industry is willing to admit. The spill over into Alt A and prime product will be much larger than the experts state. Paulson and Bernanke are just flat wrong! This is not a market correction that was desperately needed its a flat out nuclear bomb exploding.

Anonymous said...

You can't get an option ARM with a 570 score, by the way. Subprime did not make option ARMS - they are the fodder of Alt A and prime lenders, and we have yet to see the fallout from that. The problem with subprime are the margins on adjustable rate loans. Prime mortgages carry margins of between 2.0 and 3.0 - generally closer to 2.5. That is added to the index and subprime uses the LIBOR index. Subprime margins are usually between 5 & 6. So they start out at a decent rate (with interest only) but come that first adjustment after 2 or 3 years, since the LIBOR has gone up dramatically, the increased payment along with no more interest only is what is killing everyone.
I agree that the Fed has some culpability here, but its not with the low rates, its with the rate hikes. They have been over done just like in the mid '90's (they had the same effect then - killed the housing market). This way of "controlling inflation" is out-moded. It should not be done by hurting families trying to keep a roof over their heads and live the American dream. Heavens, they haven't thought of a new way since the 40's. Is there really any inflation anyway where there is an actual market? Fuel is not a free market - we can't control gas or power prices by "shopping around" - in fact, fuel prices are working FOR the Fed - the Fed should lower rates TODAY because we all are getting a PAY CUT due to the horrific gas prices. We are paying $3.40 a gallon in San Diego and it is going up 7 cents a week right now. Get a clue, FED.

Unknown said...

That last anonymous said:
I agree that the Fed has some culpability here, but its not with the low rates, its with the rate hikes.
...This way of "controlling inflation" is out-moded. It should not be done by hurting families trying to keep a roof over their heads and live the American dream.


It's not like the FED rate is all that high right now when you consider it in the historical context. I can still recall that a savings account paid 5.25% for many years back in the 70s and 80s - that's what the FED fund rate is now. So it's tough to make the argument that rates are high right now. I think the real question right now is why were so many people suckered into getting ARMs at a time when interest rates were at historic lows. That's a scandal. Part of it is financial ignorance on the part of the consumer, but some of the blame has to go on the mortgage industry.

the Fed should lower rates TODAY because we all are getting a PAY CUT due to the horrific gas prices.

Guess what: if the FED lowers rates gas prices will probably go up. Why? Because lower rates will make the dollar itself is worth less meaning it will take more of them in any kind of foreign transactions. The Chinese are already buying oil denominated in Euros and many of the oil producing states are considering alternatives to the dollar. Lowering rates right now will only accelerate the move away from the dollar as a reserve currency. If the oil producers move away from the dollar, then $3.40/gallon for gas will look like a great bargain.

Anonymous said...

Surely unless a mortgage was "mis-sold" by mortgage brokers, then someone defaulting on their mortgage only has themselves to blame. Mis-selling occured in the UK when brokers sold mortgages whose repayments were linked to equity funds - they suggested that repayments would reduce as existing repayments (put into an equity fund) would inflate by rising stock markets...the rest was history.
My point here is that people who take on mortgages are no different from the buyers of Dotcom shares in the last bubble. If they have risked, by taking a mortgage, on the US Housing market, and its gone wrong, well they have risked badly and should suffer the consequences. We are talking about adults.
Likewise, people who have extended mortgages should also suffer, as they have misjudged risk.
However, the real failure is the banking regulator......they should ensure that banks not only meet Tier 1 and 2 capital ratios today....but also in the future, unlikely given the loans extended both to private individuals, corporations and private equity houses.
I fear that this culture is slowly moving to Europe, so my long held call of Long Euro Short Dollar might have to be changed!!! :)

Anonymous said...

I think this entire castrophy was constructed by design. I mean come on, 1%? What kind of weak economy would require that? Has the US ever been in such bad shape? Did they go that low during the great depression? No, of course not! This entire mess falls directly on the shoulders of the Banks, the FED, and the office of comptroller of the currency. The FED is responsable for driving demand artificially high with artificially low interest rates. The big banks are responsable for giving underwriting sign off to Billions of dollars in fiat wires from the FED to companies (Sub prime lenders) who clearly had no restraint to lending practices lending hundreds of billions of dollars to people who were irresponsable, un-willing, or even borrowers who were un-able to pay! Like one of you put, anyone with a pulse could get a loan, and I can attest to that fact. The office of the comptorller of the currency is responsable for allowing such a vast and incredible debt in debt be created, and currency to follow, of which I believe is the TRUE cause of inflation. I mean come on, even if this was monopoly money in my pocket, I know that the more of them there are, the less each one is worth. Does any one else seem to get that?? Inflation is the drect product of an oversupply of money in all forms. Too much money, makes everything cost more. It's not the value of oil that his climbed or changed, its the relationship of that value to the money in our pockets that has.

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